tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post2121017945796741830..comments2024-01-23T16:53:02.428+00:00Comments on Mark Thompson: The case against Tom Harris' case for first-past-the-postMark Thompsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00744387583593537268noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-80293943232190650862009-12-08T15:27:55.213+00:002009-12-08T15:27:55.213+00:00"dindongalistic - gerrymandering means arrang..."dindongalistic - gerrymandering means arranging a voting system to suit your own party, no? In origin it had to do with geographic division of voting areas."<br /><br />Yes, therefore Electoral Reform has nothing to do with Gerrymandering -- it's about changing the basis of elections foremost, geography being secondary (though undeniably still important).<br /><br />"Alliances are not parties and whilst the former will be needed, the latter are not."<br /><br />Alliances are how many parties began, and they're how parties essentially operate.<br /><br />You want to go back to a period when party process was entirely undemocratic, opaque and unaccountable? Fine, but I'd prefer not to, myself.<br /><br />It's like the ludicrous idea of 'banning whipping'. You can't ban parties, or ban whipping, because they're basic consequences of national politics, and wholly necessary for the establishment of government and opposition.<br /><br />"The key point remains: recalibrating the voting system as described thus far is about electing parties and not about giving the people the sort of representation they could have and would be advantaged by."<br /><br />Actually, not all reforms are. AV in particular would solve problems with FPTP elections on an individual level, but do nothing to improve proportionality on the macro.Dingdongalistichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848569458025671647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-82551433642005807642009-12-08T00:20:52.254+00:002009-12-08T00:20:52.254+00:00Abolish parties?!
Whatever happened to "free...Abolish parties?!<br /><br />Whatever happened to "freedom of association"?Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-86023892280358529452009-12-07T18:49:01.663+00:002009-12-07T18:49:01.663+00:00He's wrong about Scotland. Salmond is runnig a...He's wrong about Scotland. Salmond is runnig a minority Government and what he is doing is building single coalitions around each issue as it comes up. This is the way Denmark has been run since 1909. <br /><br />The more I look at it the more I like the idea. Rather than tying parties together for a fixed term. he has been getting near universal support for a lot of his policies by negotiating with all parties and not just one. <br /><br />The Economist did a piece on this in the 26 Nov issue. http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14972983<br /><br />I'm not sure that hindcasting tells us much. Despite what the cynics say I think the British voter is quite savvy. If the voting system is changed they will change the way they vote.<br /><br />If FPTP really did lead to the end of Clause 4 then at least it had one benefit.Simon Fawthrophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519464855839416009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-20428437238151113852009-12-07T16:35:49.821+00:002009-12-07T16:35:49.821+00:00@ dindongalistic - gerrymandering means arranging ...@ dindongalistic - gerrymandering means arranging a voting system to suit your own party, no? In origin it had to do with geographic division of voting areas.<br /><br />Alliances are not parties and whilst the former will be needed, the latter are not. Granted there will be a tendency for parties to form from alliances, as you describe, but that does not need to be so.<br /><br />The key point remains: recalibrating the voting system as described thus far is about electing parties and not about giving the people the sort of representation they could have and would be advantaged by. Given all the running is being made by the political parties, this is not a surprise.Technology does offer the prospect of something different to the past however, rather than substantially more of the same.Cardinal Richelieu's molehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07355424371874064362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-57145946604756336012009-12-07T15:31:34.220+00:002009-12-07T15:31:34.220+00:00"Now that parties are not necessary for monit..."Now that parties are not necessary for monitoring purposes, the electorate and the body politic would be better served than they could ever be by gerrymandering of the voting system by instead abolishing parties and electing rather than party placemen resourceful free-thinkers."<br /><br />Gerrymandering? Are you sure you understand the meaning of the word?<br /><br />You cannot abolish parties, because parties are alliances. They will exist whether or not they are 'legitimate', simply due to the fact that there will always be a government, therefore there will always be opposition alliances.<br /><br />Your analysis is ahistorical at best -- parties started out as descriptions for coalitions, sometimes varying on the issue -- for instance, the abolitionists were sometimes labelled as a "party", as were the pro-slave trade MPs, and these alliance lines often crossed over government and opposition dividing lines.Dingdongalistichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848569458025671647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-822491960931445792009-12-07T14:52:03.289+00:002009-12-07T14:52:03.289+00:00Your analysis and that of Tom Harris overlooks the...Your analysis and that of Tom Harris overlooks the fact that the voting system is in fact about electing parties, not people. Ignored therefore is the key point that parties blight politics. <br /><br />Parties used to be necessary - for parliamentarians' activities used to be unobserved and unrecorded by the electorate and so unless a person was presented with a party label, there was no proper means of telling what they would get up to once elected. Technology has changed all that: the political classes need to get up to date and get some fresh ideas.<br /><br />Now that parties are not necessary for monitoring purposes, the electorate and the body politic would be better served than they could ever be by gerrymandering of the voting system by instead abolishing parties and electing rather than party placemen resourceful free-thinkers.Cardinal Richelieu's molehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07355424371874064362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-43010970954571446412009-12-06T22:51:53.524+00:002009-12-06T22:51:53.524+00:00I love the way Tom Harris regards AV as a "st...I love the way Tom Harris regards AV as a "stepping stone" between FPTP and STV. It's just another single-member system. Admittedly, a far better one than FPTP, but changing the basis of the electoral system from single-member to multi-member would be a far more radical change than changing the basis of each constituency election from FPTP to AV.Dingdongalistichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848569458025671647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-64005551970194224522009-12-06T22:09:37.214+00:002009-12-06T22:09:37.214+00:00"I know some people think I bang on about ele..."<i>I know some people think I bang on about electoral reform too much</i>".<br /><br />I got nothin' ....Constantly Furioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02820008075933084222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-11516443786165009822009-12-06T21:25:52.555+00:002009-12-06T21:25:52.555+00:00First past the post is fail. It only serves those ...First past the post is fail. It only serves those who are the dominant parties in any constituency and not the people. We need to start putting the voter first otherwise we will see a repeat of the disastrous recent history, with more bailouts and more wars. They don't listen because they don't have to.<br /><br />Arrogance is not borne of belief, it is borne of circumstance.freedomscaresmenoreply@blogger.com