tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post2956131881783416824..comments2024-01-23T16:53:02.428+00:00Comments on Mark Thompson: Lib Dems should take the Tory dealMark Thompsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00744387583593537268noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-71085110402312500242010-05-12T19:49:43.919+01:002010-05-12T19:49:43.919+01:00It was the onlty viable option and a good one at t...It was the onlty viable option and a good one at that. Rubbish Tory policies like the marraige subsidy and inhertiance tax cut will be scrapped. Whislt policies like £10,000 before income tax, pupils premium and the AV system are Lib dems or close to libdems policies. <br /><br /><br />Further more i opposed the NI rise becasue i realise that employers factor this in as a cost of hiring someone. This tax would be what economists would consider a leakage from the economy and is the equivalent of spending cuts from the economy of the same account. I for one am grateful that employers have a greater incentive to hire people, and people(in this case throught the markets) rather than government are deciding how our money is allocated.<br /><br />A Rainbow coalition would mean that the Irish Scots and Welsh would secure their parluiamentary budgets ensuring that England would have to suffer a majority of the cuts. tHis to me is inherintly an unfair proposition.<br /><br />At this testing time when we need a stable government i think this coalition can only be a good thing, representing the centre left and right.<br /><br />We havn't achieved all that we hoped to achive, but a lot of what we hoped to achieve. Furthermore the Libs have proved that in the case of a hung parliament they can be trusted as the party to place National Interst over party politcs.(Personaly i think negotiations with labour were box ticking and a bargaining chip)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-56521689777849873332010-05-12T15:17:59.648+01:002010-05-12T15:17:59.648+01:00Well it is the pragmatic choice a coalition betwee...Well it is the pragmatic choice a coalition between libs and conservatives. It seems to me the liberals have done very well out of this. Hopefully they will come up with some <a href="http://www.home4eco.com/index.php/garden-composter-rollable.html" rel="nofollow">innovative ideas</a> to drive the economy forward.home for ecohttp://www.home4eco.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-60160553562608664122010-05-11T23:59:14.997+01:002010-05-11T23:59:14.997+01:00For the first time in history we have, en effet, t...For the first time in history we have, en effet, the Whigs and Tories combining. The minority socialist tendency that the Whigs-cum-Liberals-cum-Lib Dems had become lumbered with in latter years can now splinter off and get embedded in Liebore’s rump.<br /><br />The new Whig-Tory combo could become so powerful that it will keep Liebore out of power for good. Now THAT’S a progressive coalition.Jaded63noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-34826274767160159132010-05-11T23:13:40.778+01:002010-05-11T23:13:40.778+01:00Well, at least we do have a choice and thank goodn...Well, at least we do have a choice and thank goodness for that.<br /><br />I do find the Labour imposed taxes on pensions an affront, together with the 3,500 new laws including exciting anti terrorist laws now used to snoop on our bin usage.<br /><br />The recent death of my Father, discovery of the degree of my Mothers succumbing to Altzheimers and the realisation that 'you are on your own boy' under Labour sorting out care, my Mother selling up to pay it (I am doing that for her) brings home the reality of life under Labour, particularly if you have been stupid enough to work all your life and save.<br /><br />I for one am willing to give a Conservative/Lib Dem coalition a chance.<br /><br />Surely we have tired of the 'some animals are more equal than others' form of government, where election seems to have become less and less important, snooping on the general public has become more and more important and any need to discuss policies and actions ends up in showcases where suntanned politicians can bodypop their carefully honed evasive skills. Bravo.<br /><br />Labour have spent decades trying to get 'someone else' to rule us and they finally managed it by signing the Lisbon Treaty on our behalf when they had promised us a referendum. Hurrah for them. What a great legacy. As Blair is apparently credited with 'say what you like before you are elected, do what you like after'. I suppose there will be a very well paid job for the Browns in the EU just as there are now for both Kinnocks. What a surprise. Let's not forget Neil Kinnock nipped out to the Soviet Union whilst Thatcher was in power to see what could be done to destabilise the UK government. Or perhaps he was on holiday.<br /><br />One rule for them, another for us.<br /><br />Bathplugs to them all.Winston (deceased)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-88602904568517782162010-05-11T20:27:06.541+01:002010-05-11T20:27:06.541+01:00I'd take your point that electoral reform can&...I'd take your point that electoral reform can't be forced on voters from above one step further & say that any referendum must, if successful, be followed by a referendum giving choice among different electoral systems.<br /><br />How meaningless the idea that the British people are deciding their own politics if the only choice is between status quo and whatever awkward and poorly-designed compromise their overlords can produce!<br /><br />In New Zealand it was shown that the populace of a democracy, given a choice among voting systems, can exercise it wisely. But in the UK the dominant parties are so afraid of democratic change that they never look above party interests to the question of what would really be a better system.The Rusticated Classicisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09199588427470511686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-78505387737375428632010-05-11T18:32:19.051+01:002010-05-11T18:32:19.051+01:00I'm disgusted, shocked and horrified that we a...I'm disgusted, shocked and horrified that we are to support a Tory government with George I've never held a real job in my life Osborne as chancellor. It is a disgrace. The people of Scotland will have been effectively disenfranchised, 85% of Scots voted against a tory government for we still remember Maggie's cuts, the destruction of the unions and with it the lives of thousands. They achieved 15% of the vote in Scotland, and 1 MP. One. Uno. Un.<br />I do acknowledge the Rainbow Coalition of Progress (including the nice wee Green lady) is not really possible, given the Labour rebels are impossible to control and any vote would rely on them staying put, and on nationalist and Northern Ireland support.<br />Though I'm disgusted and I would rather let them Tories have their minority government than being associated with them, I realise it's impractical and it's best to have LibDem common sense in the cabinet to put a brake on the tory right wing policies. I cant explain nor express enough how disgusted and disappointed I feel. I'm seriously considering tearing up my membership and joining another party.LordShawlands of Glasgownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-12879396485851033402010-05-11T14:55:16.385+01:002010-05-11T14:55:16.385+01:00Firstly, I did not vote Lib Dem.
This wasn't b...Firstly, I did not vote Lib Dem.<br />This wasn't because I lacked courage, it's because I read your manifesto and found it incomplete, inconsistent and reading like it was written by a Very Large Committee.<br />The 'Liberal Democrats' received 6,827,938 votes from the total voting population which corresponds to 14.98% of the voting able population, or to put it another way nearly a seventh of the voting population.<br />This makes the Liberal Democrats the least popular major party by a significant margin.<br />Today, the run on the pound starts and the FT Index is dropping caused by 'Liberal Democrat' procrastination whilst they flirt with a party with an unelected leader to impose their views on electoral reform without having to go to the trouble of asking the populace. How very European, I think 'Liberal' can now be dropped from the name. Cavorting with an unelected prime actively using three other unelected senior officers Lords Adonis and Mandelson, and Alastair Campbell who lead a party to election defeat by a large margin; Might as well drop the 'democrat' from the name aswell.<br />Be in no doubt that I and others call this partisan and putting self interest firmly before the welfare of the country.Winston (deceased)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-22142950006446136912010-05-11T14:53:49.432+01:002010-05-11T14:53:49.432+01:00The basics of ANY negotiation is to proceed with &...The basics of ANY negotiation is to proceed with "good faith" based on a few simple principles.<br /><br />First, that the Parties agree to negotiate exclusively for a period of time, ( say 48 hours)<br /><br />Second, that the Parties keep everything in thast room confidential until the end or breakdown of negotiations.<br /><br />Third, no other runners, secret chats or parrallel discussions with competitors are held. If they are so. then they are declared.<br /><br />Honourable conduct has been seen throughout by Cammeron in my view, but not the Liberal leader Clegg, who seems out of his depth frankly.<br /><br />After thirteen years, if any of you can believe a word Brown, Mandleson or Campbell says, then you are bigger fools than I thought.<br /><br />The Public and the National Interest demands intergity of actions and brutal transparency, so that a stable Government can be achieved quickly. The Liberals will not be forgiven by the Country if they do not go with the Conservatives now and try for a fanciful failure -that of a rainbow coalition. it will last six months at bestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-63634081237107042592010-05-11T14:42:51.045+01:002010-05-11T14:42:51.045+01:00"The fundamental problem with full PR is that..."The fundamental problem with full PR is that it gives smaller parties massively disproportionate bargaining power relative to their electoral mandate"<br /><br />No, it doesn't. That is a property of the current system with a hung parliament. Under PR the number one choices cast for crackpot candidates and extremists are generally redistributed among the larger parties after elimination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-58728842170972789622010-05-11T14:38:48.296+01:002010-05-11T14:38:48.296+01:00Unlike some on here I don't think that the dis...Unlike some on here I don't think that the discussions with both sides will be seen badly by the Tories.<br /><br />As professional politicians, and politicians who have spent the last month rubbishing the LibDems at every turn, they knew that this wasn't a done deal.<br /><br />If the two sides reach a deal (which I believe they will), what's happened during the discussions will be history for anyone with a vaguely open mind. Yes those who were never in favour of a deal will keep bringing it up but in reality they were going to seize on whatever they could to undermine the agreement and it should probably be seen in that light.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13836973608409709583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-51682814167695620832010-05-11T14:29:07.129+01:002010-05-11T14:29:07.129+01:00The fundamental problem with full PR is that it gi...The fundamental problem with full PR is that it gives smaller parties massively disproportionate bargaining power relative to their electoral mandate. Why should we be held to ransom by a tiny minority vote negotiating "special favours" to basically sell their vote. How is that in the "National Interest"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-78443179501870137492010-05-11T14:28:05.314+01:002010-05-11T14:28:05.314+01:00After the fashion of Tim Minchin's song,
we d...After the fashion of Tim Minchin's song,<br /><br />we don't like PR<br />you don't like PR<br />lets not like PR together..<br /><br />CON LAB coalition!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-58664637872259196202010-05-11T14:26:40.041+01:002010-05-11T14:26:40.041+01:00To Mark, credit for writing what must have been a ...To Mark, credit for writing what must have been a difficult post.<br /><br />To all those Lib Dems out there, stop and think for a moment. You came third in the election. You lost seats. Aren't you happy to be getting anything? You seem to think you won the election.<br /><br />I'm amazed it's taken this long for the saner members of the Lib Dem party to realise firstly their behaviour in the last 24 hours has destroyed the reputation that was gained during the election, and secondly a deal with Labour wouldn't last more than a month before another election would have to be called, at which point you would be wiped out. Incredible how the hubris over being kingmaker has blinded you.<br /><br />Next perhaps we'll see the triple lock mechanism refuse the deal with the Tories, force you to deal with Labour, and then get wiped out in the summer election. Unless the grass roots of the party come to their senses.<br /><br />Now all that's remaining is for David Cameron to rescind the offer of a referendum on AV.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-46560107936302297202010-05-11T14:20:37.343+01:002010-05-11T14:20:37.343+01:00Nick Clegg is right to get the best deal he can. W...Nick Clegg is right to get the best deal he can. What he is trying to squeeze out of the other parties is a fair electoral system.<br /><br />The Tories would prefer to stick with the current system where they win seats in wealthy rural constituencies with small populations or as a minority choice in larger constituencies where the progressive vote is split.<br /><br />Labour would like AV because under that system they would pick up all the anti tory second choices.<br /><br />The Lib Dems want PR which is a fair system reflecting the number of votes in the number of seats. Governments would still be mainly controlled by Labour or Conservatives but ALL of the smaller parties would have a voice. While I dislike many of the smaller parties and what they stand for I prefer PR. That is democracy after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-1960758573640537372010-05-11T14:11:46.850+01:002010-05-11T14:11:46.850+01:00Nice quote from a veteran Labour MP
"I find ...Nice quote from a veteran Labour MP<br /><br />"I find it hard to feel positively-minded towards a Lib Dem deal for two reasons. First, the arithmetic doesn't stack up, and it's quite hard to see how you get a stable government. I am sure you could get an agreement but how long that would last is another matter.<br /><br />The second is I think the Lib Dems are acting in an unseemly manner. Tendering maybe appropriate for a building contract but I am not sure it's appropriate here. This feels like competitive bidding for something and somebody will be punished for this and I don't want it to be the Labour party."<br /><br />Yes, it's the "new politics" in action....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-90417205343515447312010-05-11T14:00:49.267+01:002010-05-11T14:00:49.267+01:00The Tories cannot be trusted? Have they been condu...The Tories cannot be trusted? Have they been conducting secret negotions with Labour then? <br />Didn't the Labour and Lib Dems Manifesto promise a Lisbon referendum? Then LD abstained and Labour just lied. And you have problems trusting Tories? I suggest the rest of the world has rather more trouble trusting you lot.<br /><br />As a Tory I want no part of the LD's and suggest we just have another Election right away. Then I prefer democracy, unlike Cleggie and his new chum Gordo.Ethannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-4867067112996041702010-05-11T13:58:55.575+01:002010-05-11T13:58:55.575+01:00For all those who support the Lib Dems but who ins...For all those who support the Lib Dems but who insist that a deal with either Lab or Con is unacceptable - why don't you just join one of the two old parties? The nature of a centre party which supports PR is that a deal *has* to be possible with either side. Otherwise what exactly is the point of voting Lib Dem? Just vote Red or Blue and be done with it.Rodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-71239645519075324982010-05-11T13:56:24.956+01:002010-05-11T13:56:24.956+01:00Mark, you forget one very important thing, the Tor...Mark, you forget one very important thing, the Tories cannot be trusted to keep their promises. If they get in electoral reform will be deferred while Cameron and co spend a few months wooing the electorate before announcing another general election. If they get in after that electoral reform will once again be sidelined.<br /><br />If Labour can deliver any kind of electoral reform we must grab it. It will not happen otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-23366201967175903912010-05-11T13:55:49.636+01:002010-05-11T13:55:49.636+01:00The longer this goes on, the greater the danger th...The longer this goes on, the greater the danger that it brings the whole idea of post-election trading and discussion into grubby disrepute. Think of how it will colour the public's view of whether ANY kind of PR is a mistake. <br />Clegg was right on Friday: the Tories are the only game he should be playing. He should take it. Now.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00918158797956356490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-18861392513823266852010-05-11T13:53:35.612+01:002010-05-11T13:53:35.612+01:00No way, They will not honour any promise. I find t...No way, They will not honour any promise. I find the Conservatives policies abhorrent. They will Marginalise us in Europe, We will not get PR. This will be an opportunity missed. The Lib Dem vote will be wiped out in Scotland. I for one will never vote Lib Dem again! At best I could stomach "Confidence and Supply"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-2371391978254862262010-05-11T13:40:46.087+01:002010-05-11T13:40:46.087+01:00I'm surprised so many Libs seem to be taking t...I'm surprised so many Libs seem to be taking the Rainbow seriously.<br />It cannot last.<br />The idea that for every vote on every issue a 100% of their MPs will turn up is incredulous. How many by elections/illnesses/scandals or just other commitments does it take for it to fail.<br /><br />The only reason that the Tories aren't in Downing street now is the need for a workable majority. Workable... <br />They have 48 seats over their rivals Labour and that isn't really enough.<br />How well will a party manage with 5?<br /><br />And the Tories only need to offer an English Parliament to all those enraged right of centre votes.<br />BNP and UKIP polled 1,500,000 votes. Even if only 20% go to the right Lib Dems especially could very well end up with less MPs after an October election than before.<br /><br />{MRS Q and many at the mums groups voted Lib Dem - For the local MP who has a good record. <br />She has said she will never vote for him again. So have many others. Its quite shocking this sense of betrayal. <br />Not a scare story ..just a fact. libs actually have the most to lose. Labour can easily bounce back..they will have a new,better, leader next time in October.<br />The Tories will have the failed UKIP and disaffected Tories and ex Cleggmanias.<br />What will the Libs have?<br />An example of how PR works in practice..back room deals and the minorities holding the majority to ransom..<br />Doesn't sound like much of a vote winner.Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-21584474298422671552010-05-11T13:25:12.562+01:002010-05-11T13:25:12.562+01:00Anonymous @ 12:02:
You said:
"Sadly Mark
Al...Anonymous @ 12:02:<br /><br />You said:<br /><br />"Sadly Mark<br />All of this merely highlights how dangerous it is for a party when someone sets themselves up via a blog as a spokesperson and appears on radio phone-ins as the one "libDem" voice on the panel. That single voice is now being amplified on BBC TV as being representative of the mood within the party. Is it?"<br /><br />I have not set myself up as a spokesperson for anything, apart from my own brain. I am just a Lib Dem blogger/activist and speak only in that capacity. I try and point that out regularly when I appear on the media. I am absolutely not speaking for the party, simply my view. In other words what I reckon about stuff, as in the title of the blog.<br /><br />I don't know if my view is representative of the view in the party. There are numerous other blog posts today from Lib Dems along similar lines but views are changing all the time. We'll have to wait and see what happens but I have laid out what I think should happen, for whatever it is worth.Mark Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00744387583593537268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-85807397306104253922010-05-11T13:05:18.072+01:002010-05-11T13:05:18.072+01:00I really object the the received wisdom that Labou...I really object the the received wisdom that Labour can be defined as a 'progressive party' and that they are our natural bedfellows as part of a 'progressive alliance'. Anyone who examines their thirteen year record of authoritarian, statist, corporatist, corrupt, spendthrift, war-mongering hegemony surely cannot believe this. The Tories are hardly likeable but at least they're untainted by the mess that the Labour Party have created. Progressive my arse.Rodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-89254297249237890842010-05-11T12:54:46.731+01:002010-05-11T12:54:46.731+01:00"if we are ever going to get PR we need to de...<i>"if we are ever going to get PR we need to demonstrate how coalitions can work in practise"</i><br /><br />The Tories, of course, have the opposite incentive.Tom Freemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02997295899017354602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-44156959326107711882010-05-11T12:51:31.707+01:002010-05-11T12:51:31.707+01:00Alister is right. Lords reform should be part of t...Alister is right. Lords reform should be part of the equation - can make it easier for Labour to PROMISE you something that they can deliver.<br />And of course you are going to be nervous on whether Labour can deliver on PR. But if they don't, then you bring them down, they go to the country, and they get annihilated.<br />Here are the questions for you, if you really are contemplating this deal with 'Dave':<br />Do you really want to be responsible for handing the keys of #10 to the Tories? (And what about all the people who used to vote for you 'to keep the Tories out'?)<br />Also: When immediate Tory cuts and dismantlement of parts of the welfare state take place and the economy and society start to tank, how are your electoral prospects going to look?<br />And are you really willing to give up on the prospect of full PR?<br />These questions are pretty obvious, but I haven't seen any good answers to them from you.<br />...I hope that you reject this offer, and keep the 'progressive alliance' idea alive. For believe you me, if you go in with Dave and George, you are going to need PR, real PR. Because your vote will shrink so fast that AV won't help you.<br />p.s. 'Labour offers closest value match', says @DrEvanHarris http://gu.com/p/2hv3d/ip via @tom_watson #progressivemajorityRuperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04334135270533978426noreply@blogger.com