tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post2757113987984970071..comments2024-01-23T16:53:02.428+00:00Comments on Mark Thompson: Electoral system distortions lets BNP inMark Thompsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00744387583593537268noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-35181418440393384892009-06-23T14:17:40.747+01:002009-06-23T14:17:40.747+01:00I think a more proportional system (I advocate wei...I think a more proportional system (I advocate weighted STV) would be good.<br /><br />Why should the Green party be denied proportional representation merely to keep the BNP out of Parliament?<br /><br />I agree that it is desirable to keep them out of power but with their limited support and the general distate for them, a proportional system would achieve that I thinkVoternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-77664683636514424702009-06-23T12:41:33.650+01:002009-06-23T12:41:33.650+01:00From my perspective STV is the best or rather leas...From my perspective STV is the best or rather least worst system available. There are no perfect systems but I am convinced that STV is the most fair with the least drawbacks.<br /><br />Its biggest advantage is in the power it gives to the voters and takes away from the party machines. This is why the big parties don't like it.Mark Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00744387583593537268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-12346309112066086552009-06-23T12:36:19.369+01:002009-06-23T12:36:19.369+01:00Yes, I am aware that the Lib Dems favour STV.
My ...Yes, I am aware that the Lib Dems favour STV.<br /><br />My point was about fairness.<br /><br />How can the Lib Dems advocate a system on the grounds of fairness when the system they put forward is actually not fair and this is claimed to be an advantage!<br /><br />If you believe in fairness, then put forward a fair system, not one rigged against certain parties.Voternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-78667302151651500442009-06-22T12:07:57.433+01:002009-06-22T12:07:57.433+01:00Voter, the system being discussed here is the Firs...Voter, the system being discussed here is the First Past the Post system for electing councillors and MPs.<br /><br />The fact that in some areas parties are so weak because the FPTP system makes it very difficult for them to get elected means that parties like the BNP can move in to try and fill the vacuum.<br /><br />What the Lib Dems advocate is STV (Single Transferable Vote) which would make things much fairer and proportional but would make it hard for extremist parties to get in (although not impossible - no system can do that).Mark Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00744387583593537268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-8733484619349449892009-06-22T11:34:50.728+01:002009-06-22T11:34:50.728+01:00I find it hard to understand the Lib Dem position....I find it hard to understand the Lib Dem position.<br /><br />Mr Clegg argues for a new system in the name of fairness and then you say that an advantage of the solution proposed by the party is that it is unfair, namely to the BNP.Voternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-80552250887371726692009-06-08T00:17:48.604+01:002009-06-08T00:17:48.604+01:00Ah - now I follow
"Broad support" is a ...Ah - now I follow<br /><br />"Broad support" is a pretty vague term I suppose :-)<br /><br />The ERS paper is well worth a read if you've not cast your eye over it yet.Hywelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16094171587140185827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-4868396639162782552009-06-06T14:34:29.604+01:002009-06-06T14:34:29.604+01:00Hywel,
I suppose I was not very clear. If a candi...Hywel,<br /><br />I suppose I was not very clear. If a candidate gets 16% of the vote in a 6 member constituency then there is not really any fair system that would prevent them from getting in. That is broad support in my book but I agree I did not clarify this. The argument then is to make sure that we campaign against them strongly enough to make sure that does not happen.<br /><br />The argument I was trying to counter is the one that opponents of PR sometimes try on which is that if the BNP gets 1% of the vote across the country then under a PR system they would get 6 or 7 seats in parliament. That is just not true under STV as they would need to win a seat in a multi member constituency where there were maybe 4 or 5 seats available. Therefore they would need at least 20% of the votes from either first or other preferences transferred. Realistically that is very unlikely to happen.Mark Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00744387583593537268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-73842054490646766152009-06-06T12:10:06.229+01:002009-06-06T12:10:06.229+01:00Obviously the same "distortions" would w...Obviously the same "distortions" would work for the LibDems but since the Guardian is as much of a racist, criminal, genocide supporting organsiation as the LibDems "distrotions" in their case are not a bad thing.neil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3881762807913180318.post-43075762745555685632009-06-06T10:31:58.267+01:002009-06-06T10:31:58.267+01:00"STV means candidates have to have broad supp..."STV means candidates have to have broad support before they can get elected."<br /><br />This is fundamentally incorrect. STV's strength is that it allows minority views to be represented. It's true that extreme parties don't do well out of transfers (see the DUP and Sinn Fein in NI) but if you can get enough first prefs you don't need transfers.<br /><br />ERS produced a very good paper on the effect of STV compared with FPTP in Burnley. <br />http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/oldsite20070123/publications/briefings/ERS_Burnley_Report.pdf<br /><br />IIRC their conclusions were that STV would make it easier for the BNP to win initial seats, but harder to expand beyond a certain level.<br /><br />In Burnley the BNP polled around 15% - so 1/6 seats is about proportional.Hywelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16094171587140185827noreply@blogger.com